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11:51 addie cath!
11:51 catherwood you!
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11:54 danhon ARRRRRg
11:55 catherwood wow, all the big names in chat today
11:57 addie we have to behave in here because they have us on the projector :P
11:57 danhon In SXSW panel, backchannel projects you
11:57 rooreynolds come join us
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11:59 thFOOL <cough!>
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12:00 blackbeltjones i can haz ludological smackdown
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12:01 blackbeltjones 'director of play'
12:01 blast has joined
12:02 blackbeltjones Magister Ludens, shurley?
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12:02 blackbeltjones how is a brand different for a story?
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12:04 blast do I need a british accent to be on this panel? :-)
12:04 danhon It helps if you think we're all evil
12:04 caillene no, there are plenty here already ;)
12:04 blackbeltjones six sixtostart namechecks to start ;-)
12:04 addie wait, all people with British accents aren't, in fact, evil (but polite)?
12:05 3Ms no, just metrosexual.
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12:06 blast Its all about cake
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12:07 caillene cake or death?
12:07 blast let me think....cake
12:07 3Ms chocolate?
12:07 addie death, please
12:07 danhon There is no cake.
12:07 addie CAKE, I mean cake!
12:07 slowloris wasn't cake france?
12:07 thFOOL the cake is a lie
12:08 slowloris it was a triumph
12:08 caillene what was the first example that rachel gave with all the puzzles in the ads?
12:08 3Ms no pie is the lie.
12:08 danhon Honda
12:08 addie Dan meeboing while paneling is like being able to play guitar and sing at the same time on Rock Band.
12:08 caillene Honda, cool thanks.
12:08 thFOOL even though you broke my heart and killed me
12:08 caillene nobody can do that!!
12:08 slowloris apature science
12:08 thFOOL :D
12:08 blast ;-)
12:08 slowloris woot
12:09 thFOOL Jonathan Coulton tonight at Emo's I believe
12:09 guest390720 has joined
12:09 blast dude, it started with MUDS (full stop)
12:09 3Ms i remember MUDs
12:09 caillene hooray MUDs! shout out to old school...
12:09 3Ms (turns up hearing aids)
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12:09 danhon lambdamoo!
12:09 * slowloris shouts out
12:09 blast I'm still stuck in the MUD
12:09 addie MUD ate my college career.
12:09 caillene mine too
12:09 blast emote smiles
12:09 rooreynolds nearly ate mine too
12:10 addie another multitasker
12:10 addie you guys are gooood.
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12:10 blackbeltjones MUDs = storyfrastructure
12:10 caillene MUDs = a lost perfect art
12:10 blackbeltjones toys = storyfrastructure
12:10 3Ms would that be 'thelostgame' then?
12:11 thFOOL has left
12:11 caillene storyfrastructure? BINGO
12:11 blackbeltjones stories != play
12:11 blast funny - I was on a panel just like this one in 1994 when Virtual Worlds was called Electronic Communities and it was more about the social patterns and not about displays
12:11 catherwood wishlist item: "fiction developer's toolkit"
12:11 addie blast... now get off my lawn!
12:11 addie ;)
12:11 caillene aleve's games give you headaches so you will use their product
12:11 blast :-)
12:11 thFOOL has joined
12:11 thFOOL the magic question- how do you convince your client to go with an ARG for their campaign?
12:12 caillene catherwood good to see you again (mschiff from yesterday ARG panel chat)
12:12 rooreynolds d'oh
12:12 danhon Here's a link about Aleve: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/12/business/media/12adco.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
12:12 addie good question to ask these guys, probably
12:12 blast you can't demo a ARG, you only can experience it from within
12:13 blast it is like trying to demo the taste of salt
12:13 catherwood surely you can demo the storyboard, you just can't beta test an ARG
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12:13 slowloris software development metaphors do not transpose
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12:14 blast true
12:14 caillene8 has left
12:14 slowloris so what is the appropriate metaphor to "hook" the ARG notion
12:14 3Ms more like, music industry, i think.
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12:15 3Ms you've got to "sell" the experience.
12:15 thFOOL Seems like it defies any previous model
12:15 mschiff agree
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12:15 addie slowloris, they're easy to play but hard to describe.
12:15 blast right
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12:16 blast The explanitory device is what it is trying to explain
12:16 mschiff and if you do make a huge mistake, how do you recover gracefully?
12:16 slowloris the map is the territory?
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12:16 julien these guys being british makes this subject so much more interesting somehow
12:16 catherwood i'm reading about this Aleve campaign now -- why did we never hear about it at unfiction? Was it not "ARGy" enough?
12:16 jfm has left
12:16 blast you are the territory through the map
12:16 thFOOL also- how can you measure the success of a campaign? What kind of metrics or proof can one use as ammo to convince a client to go that route
12:17 blast ah, back to key indicators and metrics
12:17 jamey81 engagement, reach, interaction
12:17 mschiff has left
12:17 slowloris qualitative feedback...but thats hard to collect
12:17 rooreynolds yes... we should talk more about metrics
12:17 rooreynolds (should we?)
12:17 slowloris yes
12:17 addie they've been using traditional ones like hits and session views and such
12:17 rooreynolds or are we all sick of metrics already?
12:17 jfm has joined
12:18 blast to speak of metrics, we must orient around a primary objective please
12:18 rooreynolds ok.
12:18 addie I think the brands like metrics and the game developers are sick of them ;)
12:18 thFOOL well, I hated to use the term (especially after that horrid panel yesterday in room 18) but it's something clients want unfortunately
12:18 jfm Are ARGs meant for the minority of the target who will then talk about it to the rest of the audience?
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12:18 thFOOL from what I understand, ARGs hit multiple levels of audiences
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12:19 jfm Seems like a good ARG needs to be designed to hit multiple levels of user interaction then.
12:20 thFOOL The Casual Participant, The Active Participant, The Enthusiastic Participant
12:20 rooreynolds maybe even elemets of replayability
12:20 3Ms Kennling wood
12:20 mschiff replayability is my concern too
12:20 addie jfm, that's the trick, and replayability would be nice since right now they're so ephemeral
12:20 julien ARGs enhance the experience for the devotees, help them become even more deeply involved
12:20 jfm I like that as part of a brief, theFOOL.
12:21 thFOOL but is that preaching to the choir?
12:21 jamey81 In this context the audience is determined by the marketing person buying the ARG
12:21 thFOOL jfm- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game
12:21 jfm Not to take that analogy too far, but the choir encourages the audience to hum along.
12:21 thFOOL :D
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12:22 slowloris book is written by the game
12:22 slowloris ?
12:22 slowloris it is the artifact that remains after "play"
12:22 slowloris er play
12:22 blast Key Question: Are the goals of the funder compatible with the goals of the users/community? If yes, it is a good thing
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12:23 slowloris what does it mean to win?
12:23 blast be careful what you count
12:23 jamey81 Are you trying to reach a "typical" ARG audience or are you trying to engage parts of your core audience that might get into ARGs?
12:23 epersonae has joined
12:23 jamey81 good metric
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12:23 slowloris baby count
12:24 mschiff 4 MUD offspring here
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12:24 rooreynolds I'm still confused by "someone else"
12:24 blast marriage split up because of game
12:24 addie "someone else" as opposed to marrying Elan Lee
12:24 addie I think
12:25 rooreynolds blast: lol. that's a meaningful one too
12:25 rooreynolds addie: ahhhh
12:25 slowloris can the brand change on account of the game
12:25 mschiff hooray metrics
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12:25 jamey81 Halo 3, Project Iris: 400K "participants", 30K people IM'd an automatic client: 300K downloaded a ringtone; 50K interacted with an "author"
12:25 epersonae has left
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12:25 slowloris is brand a noun or a verb?
12:25 thFOOL both ;)
12:25 addie depends on whether you're a cow.
12:25 slowloris I seem to be a Verb
12:26 blast verb
12:26 blast process, not thing
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12:26 3Ms me thinks this lumping ARGs into one definition is making the questions too specific.
12:26 blackbeltjones and entertain
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12:26 slowloris arg as product vs arg for product
12:26 jfm has left
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12:26 blackbeltjones arg as service = call centre grinding
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12:27 jamey81 JMs: good point. What about lite-weight web games? Monk-email, etc, Dancing Elves?
12:27 thFOOL I think by bringing the concept of brand into it it becomes arg for product
12:27 3Ms Halo3 arg not the same animal as Covet arg/ Courttv arg/ or Tooman arg.
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12:27 thFOOL arg as a brand experience
12:28 jamey81 Agreed, Halo3 is in a different animal but it's an extreme example of getting your customers to engage in a dialogue with your brand
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12:28 blast I would argue that in the case of Halo, at least for me, it is more of a race than a brand
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12:28 catherwood jamey, diehards will say that character emails (Monk, the 4400) are an "extended reality experience" but now lumped into the useless umbrella term "ARG"
12:29 jfm As an extreme example, can you imagine an ARG for a pharma product?
12:29 jaso what's the courttv arg?
12:29 jfm has left
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12:29 slowloris is it a race, or part of your Identity construct
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12:29 3Ms space needs to be here.
12:29 jamey81 Monk-email isn't an ARB, it's a game that you can engage with
12:29 blast I'm half native american indian, and half covinent
12:29 danhon There was an arg for pharma = aleve was a drug
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12:29 catherwood CourtTV's "Save My Husband" was essentially a contest
12:29 rooreynolds court tv game wass save my husband
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12:29 addie ViARGra!
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12:30 slowloris friends
12:30 thFOOL I think the issue with Halo was that it was fairly obtuse to the outside viewer, but the target audience already was into the game concept
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12:30 danhon They were already into the *world*
12:30 thFOOL yeah
12:30 jamey81 Halo 3, Project Iris, became a race but it did provide a ton of backstory and core concepts that the Hard core sought
12:30 julien anyone have an URL re: Masquerade that Clark is talking about?
12:30 catherwood the book Masquerade? i'll get that
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12:31 addie One of the ads featured in The Suxorz campaign was for a beer that had a fabulous commercial, but nobody could remember the brand of beer when it was over
12:31 blast when I think of brand, I is something I am mapping on my identity, but in the case of living deep within an ARG, I am the brand. Spectate versus Player
12:31 addie not campaign, panel
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12:31 catherwood my friend's site for it is at http://www.bunnyears.net/kitwilliams/
12:31 mschiff has left
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12:31 blackbeltjones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kit_Williams
12:32 addie armchair treasure hunting is sort of a whole genre unto itself
12:32 slowloris user generated Brand
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12:32 julien thx blackbeltjones
12:32 3Ms my point was there are so many flavors of ARG/Extended Experience/Creative Fiction that one can tailor the "arg" to the need of the "brand".
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12:32 jamey81 user-generated experience around brand
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12:32 catherwood is user-generated content a necessity?
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12:33 jamey81 dialogue is a necessity
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12:33 blast argv argc - sorry, my geek is showing
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12:34 thFOOL disposable
12:34 jamey81 but the communities that they got to participate continued to exist (Halo)
12:34 jfm has joined
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12:35 blast something being ephemeral is not bad
12:35 3Ms i would argue that that community existed before halo.
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12:35 jamey81 Halo ARGs were ARGs for existing communities. Those communities keep going
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12:35 thFOOL I think the key is to plan for the continuation of it
12:35 thFOOL a 'sequel'
12:35 thFOOL a serialized arg
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12:36 jamey81 The ARG isn't the THING, the brand dialogue is the THING. How do you keep that going. ARG is a tool
12:36 heitoralvelos has left
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12:36 blast right
12:36 addie you don't really keep a movie or television show going after it's over, though - although they are replayable, they don't stay alive
12:36 3Ms ephereral is not bad.. its not marketable but it's not bad.
12:36 jamey81 movies and TV aren't a dialogue
12:37 jfm has joined
12:37 thFOOL well, it would be like building new interpretations of the core strategy- take the skittles commercials for instance.
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12:37 blast there is a logical level problem, you want success at the species level, not at the organism. organisms can die to keep the species alive
12:37 catherwood tv generates dialog, just visit the forums at twop.com
12:37 guest436564 has left
12:37 thFOOL in the case of a movie or game, it will be a finite experience
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12:38 thFOOL but for something like Honda, you could build on that
12:38 jamey81 agreed
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12:38 catherwood "leave them wanting more"
12:38 3Ms unless you're Volvo .
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12:38 eekman It may be a finite experience, but the purpose is to expand the timetable of when it becomes finite. The more interest in a show, the more likely it will continue.
12:38 jamey81 Back to the TV dialogue question, is it the TV advertiser, producer, etc continuing that dialogue?
12:39 flexdaddy has joined
12:39 slowloris "leave them wanting more AND something to do about it"
12:39 danhon I think some are starting to
12:39 blackbeltjones has an ARG ever noticeably jumped the shark?
12:39 flexdaddy has left
12:39 catherwood more tv producers are having podcasts
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12:39 eekman It's a combination. It definitely comes from marketing/ad sales for the show's network, but with involvement from producers, writers, cast, etc.
12:39 flexdaddy has joined
12:39 addie there are plenty of show-related boards where the show makers participate
12:39 mschiff has left
12:39 3Ms in the case of Jericho, jamey, it's the producers.
12:39 Manage_Kelley what about creating a game with an established audience, and then introducing a brand to it?
12:39 jamey81 podcasts arent' 2 way
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12:40 3Ms and the fans
12:40 slowloris chew chew chew...it is the thing to do
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12:40 thFOOL chew on that!
12:40 addie Thetailsection has dialogue with the Lost folks, or did (not sure if they're still active)
12:40 jpob has joined
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12:41 jamey81 The community isn't for the toilet bowl cleaner it's around "taking care of the family" or something like that
12:41 mschiff has left
12:41 jamey81 Pampers isn't about diapers it's about the care of your baby
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12:41 3Ms selling the "sizzle"?
12:41 catherwood there's a Pampers users group?
12:41 thFOOL has left
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12:41 blast Volvo is about automotive safety, not cars
12:42 jamey81 There ae communities built up around early childcare. If you are pampers you support that, not build a diaper community
12:42 slowloris does an ARG always have to be covert?
12:42 guest436564 has joined
12:42 danhon Not at all!
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12:42 eekman you build a community around trying to build an affinity for your brand.
12:43 3Ms well, if you're courttv, i wouldnt recommend it.
12:43 jaso Where can I find the Pampers ARG?
12:43 blast the griefers have been successful in 2nd life
12:43 slowloris so if you can make an awsome ARG for plungers...why not
12:43 thFOOL has left
12:43 blast :-)
12:43 jamey81 Why does everything have to be about ARG/s
12:43 jamey81 It's about using games to create interaction and dialogue about brands
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12:44 eekman I don't think it does, but creating a personal connection to the brand
12:44 thFOOL I don't seem to be recieving all of the comments X-D
12:44 mschiff @thFOOL me either, i've had to rejoin about ten times from the lag
12:44 thFOOL weird
12:44 slowloris meebo does not scale
12:44 jaso has joined
12:44 blast Have the Griefers taken hold of this yet? You know, "The Internet is Serious Business" :-0
12:44 catherwood ARG is just shorthand for "games to create interaction and dialogue" and community :)
12:45 julien6 has left
12:45 3Ms or experiences.
12:45 slowloris Ong's Hat
12:45 mschiff catherwood, could you see an application for ARGs in the travel/tourism industry?
12:45 catherwood fly oceanic air?
12:45 3Ms snicker
12:45 jamey81 I disagree. ARG is "alternate" reality. You should be able to interact in this reality
12:45 mschiff hehehe not what i had in mind ;)
12:45 guest436564 has left
12:46 catherwood it used to be about alternate realities, but now it's shorthand for "my brand has leaked into your local reality space"
12:46 guest385300 has left
12:46 blackbeltjones Prison Break had levels, not episodes.
12:46 slowloris Business Solutions
12:46 3Ms Disneyworld is the original alternate reality vacation.
12:46 guest436564 has joined
12:46 jamey81 Interactive Entertainment
12:46 blast Yet Game Theory is a serious economic theory
12:46 blast silly wabbit
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12:47 Manage_Kelley has left
12:47 * 3Ms runs and hides blasts textbooks.
12:47 thFOOL "An alternate reality game is an interactive narrative that uses the real world as a platform, often involving multiple media and game elements, to tell a story that may be affected by participants' ideas or actions."
12:47 Manage_Kelley has joined
12:47 * blast is a highschool dropout
12:48 catherwood a Flash game is interactive entertainment, but it rarely fits the ARG model of building a world
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12:48 3Ms where did you find that definition, thfool?
12:48 Manage_Kelley puzzle pirates started as just small flash games
12:48 Manage_Kelley but that grew to be much larger
12:48 blackbeltjones space giraffe teaches me much
12:48 jamey81 how to drop acid?
12:49 danhon mmm, rez hd
12:49 catherwood puzzle pirates is now a virtual world platform -- some would say a cross-media game could be played out in it, others say an ARG cannot exist solely in a virtual world
12:49 blast just like cash is Visa's enemy
12:49 thFOOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game
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12:50 blast ...games are eating in to the overall time budget of the community
12:50 slowloris what about content scaling?
12:50 slowloris making the game scale
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12:51 3Ms try this: http://www.unfiction.com/compendium/2006/11/10/undefining-arg/
12:51 slowloris opensource ARG
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12:51 blast I applied for a job once by using a game as my resume
12:51 eekman4 has left
12:51 blast by the way, I got the job
12:51 blackbeltjones yep - toys scale, stories dissapate
12:51 rooreynolds has left
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12:52 blackbeltjones dissipate , even
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12:52 blast I delivered it on a 45M syquest cart - now GET OFF MY LAWN!
12:52 blast :-)
12:52 addie it's unfiction.com, not .org btw
12:52 thFOOL @3Ms- thanks for the link
12:52 rooreynolds has joined
12:52 addie and the forums are at unforums.com
12:52 guest385300 has left
12:52 thFOOL I'll have to peruse that later
12:53 blast wow, that screen is lagging!
12:53 addie (not to 3ms - that was in reference to a verbal typo by the panel)
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12:53 danhon content does not scale at all
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12:54 slowloris HALP
12:54 blast multipass
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12:55 blast just fire up a MUD dude
12:55 slowloris start a forum
12:55 blast it is cheap, it is used for education
12:55 blast and kids need to use text
12:55 addie requires some tech know-how though
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12:55 blast educational MOO
12:55 slowloris textual content scales
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12:56 blast don't think that kids need nVidia 8800's to learn
12:56 blast they just need a way to grow their identity and authorship
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12:56 mschiff i learned a ton of stuff from MUDs
12:57 3Ms like dont walk in a dark room full of orcs?
12:57 jamey81 has joined
12:57 addie You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
12:57 mschiff yeah and if your group leader walks into the next room and suddenly you're ungrouped DO NOT FOLLOW
12:57 mschiff i found a DT behind a locked door once, it was sick.
12:58 3Ms when the scarey background music starts up.. then, get out!!
12:58 blast Women need a good reason to shoot another player, men just need a place
12:58 blast :-)
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12:58 rooreynolds lol
12:59 3Ms i'll second that
12:59 blackbeltjones Or... The Wire
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12:59 rooreynolds w00t
12:59 mschiff ciao all
12:59 slowloris ONE MINUTE REMAINS
12:59 blast aloha
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12:59 mschiff just as we planned
12:59 rooreynolds come talk to ys
13:00 rooreynolds us
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